This one caught me by surprise: DG announced the LS1-f neo on St. Valentine's Day, 14 FEB 2017.

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/en/dg-aircraft-news/ls1-f-neo-fliegt/14428

Is this all new?
Fiberglass?
Carbon Fiber?
Other?

New, or rebuilt old LS1-f?

Why?

Maybe Alexander Schleicher will start building ASW-20's again?

Ray
LS1-d

No clue, but I'm not much of a "DG guy" either. Maybe they're using the old molds but more modern materials to drop weight, based on their thermalling comment, and or to make it stiffer? Could also be a lighter empty weight but newer materials can give them a heavier full up weight?

Guess we have to wait and see.

Its a refurbished LS1-f. Has the new Neo winglets, new wing root fairings and a complete new paint job done in house. Adding value and performance to the old air frame. They plan to lend it a promising German junior pilot for the summer to compete in. Looks pretty damn good.

On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 1:08:09 PM UTC-8, Glidingstuff wrote:
> Its a refurbished LS1-f. Has the new Neo winglets, new wing root fairings and a complete new paint job done in house. Adding value and performance to the old air frame. They plan to lend it a promising German junior pilot for the summer to compete in. Looks pretty damn good.

Looks great. Nice wing root. Are they the Dillinger winglets like the new ones for the LS8?
Fortunately the LS1-f already has a life extension program (TM60) or, as with the LS7 (TM7015), it might only be available for gliders with winglets.
Jim

On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 3:24:46 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> This one caught me by surprise: DG announced the LS1-f neo on St. Valentine's Day, 14 FEB 2017.
>
> http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/en/dg-aircraft-news/ls1-f-neo-fliegt/14428
>
> Is this all new?
> Fiberglass?
> Carbon Fiber?
> Other?
>
> New, or rebuilt old LS1-f?
>
> Why?
>
> Maybe Alexander Schleicher will start building ASW-20's again?
>
> Ray
> LS1-d

The wing root fairings appear to be straight out of the LS-4 design.

> Looks great. Nice wing root. Are they the Dillinger winglets like the new ones for the LS8?
> Fortunately the LS1-f already has a life extension program (TM60) or, as with the LS7 (TM7015), it might only be available for gliders with winglets.
> Jim

They are the Dillinger winglets as per the LS8 and DG 1000 18 mtr.

Basically it is just the new Dillinger winglets. Retrofitting the LS1 wing root fairing has been common in the past, but now it is going top be an official mod.

It is rumored that after LS8 and LS1f the LS4 will be next in line for a neo update.

tiistai 7. maaliskuuta 2017 9.44.27 UTC+2 Alex kirjoitti:
> Basically it is just the new Dillinger winglets. Retrofitting the LS1 wing root fairing has been common in the past, but now it is going top be an official mod.
>
> It is rumored that after LS8 and LS1f the LS4 will be next in line for a neo update.

Also LS6-c, I think LS8 neo winglets fit right away without mods. That LS1-f sure is modern looking glider with new winglets.

Think of how popular the World Class would have been if the LS-1 and Std. Cirrus had been selected and updated like this. Would have saved a bunch of development cost.

On 07/03/2017 07:44, Alex wrote:
> Basically it is just the new Dillinger winglets. Retrofitting the LS1 wing root fairing has been common in the past, but now it is going top be an official mod.
>
> It is rumored that after LS8 and LS1f the LS4 will be next in line for a neo update.
>

DG are taking options for neo winglets for the LS4. If they get 10 they
will do the work to do the design work and put into production.

--

Nick Hill

On 07/03/2017 07:44, Alex wrote:
> Basically it is just the new Dillinger winglets. Retrofitting the LS1 wing root fairing has been common in the past, but now it is going top be an official mod.
>
> It is rumored that after LS8 and LS1f the LS4 will be next in line for a neo update.
>

DG are taking options for neo winglets for the LS4. If they get 10 they
will do the work to do the design work and put into production.


--

Nick Hill

On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 17:10:00 UTC+2, wrote:
> Think of how popular the World Class would have been if the LS-1 and Std. Cirrus had been selected and updated like this. Would have saved a bunch of development cost.

What you decribe is called club class.

On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 08:50:47 -0800, krasw wrote:

> On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 17:10:00 UTC+2, wrote:
>> Think of how popular the World Class would have been if the LS-1 and
>> Std. Cirrus had been selected and updated like this. Would have saved a
>> bunch of development cost.
>
> What you decribe is called club class.

No, he meant 'World Class' - the class that heaved & strained and laid
the PW-5 egg.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 2:24:46 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> This one caught me by surprise: DG announced the LS1-f neo on St. Valentine's Day, 14 FEB 2017.
>
> http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/en/dg-aircraft-news/ls1-f-neo-fliegt/14428
>
> Is this all new?
> Fiberglass?
> Carbon Fiber?
> Other?
>
> New, or rebuilt old LS1-f?
>
> Why?
>
> Maybe Alexander Schleicher will start building ASW-20's again?
>
> Ray
> LS1-d

Ray, my take on this is DG having plenty of open capacity for modifications of the older LS gliders. Due to the horrendous reaction on them demanding service contracts, sales of new DG and LS gliders must have plummeted. Oh the marketing geniuses at work, lead by Friedel Weber and his minions. Anyone knows how the business is doing?
Herb

> Ray, my take on this is DG having plenty of open capacity for modifications of the older LS gliders. Due to the horrendous reaction on them demanding service contracts, sales of new DG and LS gliders must have plummeted. Oh the marketing geniuses at work, lead by Friedel Weber and his minions. Anyone knows how the business is doing?
> Herb

Only pre 1996 gliders are affected by service cotracts. I don't see how that impacts new glider sales at all.
http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/en/maintenance-service-aircraft/reasons-details-service

On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 11:31:49 AM UTC-8, Chris wrote:
> > Ray, my take on this is DG having plenty of open capacity for modifications of the older LS gliders. Due to the horrendous reaction on them demanding service contracts, sales of new DG and LS gliders must have plummeted. Oh the marketing geniuses at work, lead by Friedel Weber and his minions. Anyone knows how the business is doing?
> > Herb
>
> Only pre 1996 gliders are affected by service cotracts. I don't see how that impacts new glider sales at all.
> http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/en/maintenance-service-aircraft/reasons-details-service

I've seen the Dillinger tips for LS8. They look like other modern winglets now. Very nice!
The LS1f is a great Club Class glider. Since the class is handicapped, what will the Dillinger mod do to that? A nicer looking glider that performs better and has a handicap to suit?
With the World Class glider, I believe you weren't even allowed to tape over the horrific hole in the elevator. Add winglets? Not likely.
Agree with Herb. Unfortunately Herr Weber damaged the brand loyalty they picked up Rolladen-Schneider for.
Jim

You're wrong. Any glider not made by DG is subject to the tax. Thus DG demands the ransom for my 2000 LS8-18 manufactured by Rolladen-Schneider. I'll let you guess if I'd buy a glider from DG...

-John, Q3

-

On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 2:31:49 PM UTC-5, Chris wrote:
> Only pre 1996 gliders are affected by service cotracts. I don't see how that impacts new glider sales at all.
> http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/en/maintenance-service-aircraft/reasons-details-service

Before Herr Weber purchase DG they were going bankrupt, now they are not. Rolladen-Schneider went bankrupt, now you can buy a brand new LS-8 and the older LS are still supported. Whether you have a DG, LS or not, all glider pilots should be happy that Mr. Weber saved the work of two manufacturers from extinction, helps the sport in general. Now they have a very nice LS-1f to lend to a jr pilot. That too helps our sport.

By way of full disclosure, I do not own nor have ever owned a LS or DG glider.


On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 11:50:13 AM UTC-8, JS wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 11:31:49 AM UTC-8, Chris wrote:
> > > Ray, my take on this is DG having plenty of open capacity for modifications of the older LS gliders. Due to the horrendous reaction on them demanding service contracts, sales of new DG and LS gliders must have plummeted.. Oh the marketing geniuses at work, lead by Friedel Weber and his minions. Anyone knows how the business is doing?
> > > Herb
> >
> > Only pre 1996 gliders are affected by service cotracts. I don't see how that impacts new glider sales at all.
> > http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/en/maintenance-service-aircraft/reasons-details-service
>
> I've seen the Dillinger tips for LS8. They look like other modern winglets now. Very nice!
> The LS1f is a great Club Class glider. Since the class is handicapped, what will the Dillinger mod do to that? A nicer looking glider that performs better and has a handicap to suit?
> With the World Class glider, I believe you weren't even allowed to tape over the horrific hole in the elevator. Add winglets? Not likely.
> Agree with Herb. Unfortunately Herr Weber damaged the brand loyalty they picked up Rolladen-Schneider for.
> Jim

On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 21:04:20 UTC+11, krasw wrote:
>
> Also LS6-c, I think LS8 neo winglets fit right away without mods. That LS1-f sure is modern looking glider with new winglets.

That's correct. Deciding whether to buy them for my 6-c right now. I like flying with the 17.5 tips though, so if they came out with a retro fit for the long tips that brought it up to the 18m like the -W I'd be all over it like a rash.

A reasonable point, if you have no skin in the game. If you do, you might not appreciate the taste of the KoolAid you're promoting.

-John, Q3

On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 4:25:10 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> Before Herr Weber purchase DG they were going bankrupt, now they are not. Rolladen-Schneider went bankrupt, now you can buy a brand new LS-8 and the older LS are still supported. Whether you have a DG, LS or not, all glider pilots should be happy that Mr. Weber saved the work of two manufacturers from extinction, helps the sport in general. Now they have a very nice LS-1f to lend to a jr pilot. That too helps our sport.
>
> By way of full disclosure, I do not own nor have ever owned a LS or DG glider.

tiistai 7. maaliskuuta 2017 19.18.18 UTC+2 Martin Gregorie kirjoitti:
> On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 08:50:47 -0800, krasw wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 17:10:00 UTC+2, wrote:
> >> Think of how popular the World Class would have been if the LS-1 and
> >> Std. Cirrus had been selected and updated like this. Would have saved a
> >> bunch of development cost.
> >
> > What you decribe is called club class.
>
> No, he meant 'World Class' - the class that heaved & strained and laid
> the PW-5 egg.
>
>
> --
> martin@ | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org |

Last IGC decided to make electric self-launch capability compulsory for 13.5m class, so PW-5 is without competition class in future. Historical moment? Sorry OT, but since discussion veered to DG tax we are OT anyway.

On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 01:08:36 -0800, krasw wrote:

> Last IGC decided to make electric self-launch capability compulsory for
> 13.5m class,
>
So, who will be first to fit a FES to a PW-5?

Doesn't this make the World Class into a defunct, historic curiosity
since it has effectively been replaced by the 13.5m class?

> Historical moment?
>
Definitely!


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

keskiviikko 8. maaliskuuta 2017 13.02.36 UTC+2 Martin Gregorie kirjoitti:
> On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 01:08:36 -0800, krasw wrote:
>
> > Last IGC decided to make electric self-launch capability compulsory for
> > 13.5m class,
> >
> So, who will be first to fit a FES to a PW-5?
>
> Doesn't this make the World Class into a defunct, historic curiosity
> since it has effectively been replaced by the 13.5m class?
>
> > Historical moment?
> >
> Definitely!
>
>
> --
> martin@ | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org |

Thinking of PW-5 nose ground clearance, fitting FES would make a rather expensive lawnmower. But isn't there a UK company that is in the process of fitting not only jet but ELECTRIC engine driving wheels of glider that has PW-5 wings? And no, I believe IGC did not have this in mind when deciding on "electrical self launching" capability.

On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 03:28:19 -0800, krasw wrote:

> Thinking of PW-5 nose ground clearance, fitting FES would make a rather
> expensive lawnmower.
>
True enough - my excuse is that its years since I've seen one.

> But isn't there a UK company that is in the process
> of fitting not only jet but ELECTRIC engine driving wheels of glider
> that has PW-5 wings? And no, I believe IGC did not have this in mind
> when deciding on "electrical self launching" capability.
>
I remember seeing adverts and articles about that, again some time back
and nothing recently, so I can only assume that the project imploded.
IIRC the guy behind it was at one time the UK AC-4 agent: doesn't have a
lot of luck, does he?

Thinking about the AC-4M, I wonder if would it be possible to electrify
one by replacing its pop-up IC engine and fuel tank with a brushless
motor and battery. Even of possible, I suspect it would be left in the
dust behind the current 13.5m electric self-launchers, so a fun project
if ultimately futile.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 8:11:00 AM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 03:28:19 -0800, krasw wrote:
>
> > Thinking of PW-5 nose ground clearance, fitting FES would make a rather
> > expensive lawnmower.
> >
> True enough - my excuse is that its years since I've seen one.
>
> > But isn't there a UK company that is in the process
> > of fitting not only jet but ELECTRIC engine driving wheels of glider
> > that has PW-5 wings? And no, I believe IGC did not have this in mind
> > when deciding on "electrical self launching" capability.
> >


http://www.proairsport.com/news.php

On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 08:46:56 -0800, Dan Daly wrote:

> On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 8:11:00 AM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 03:28:19 -0800, krasw wrote:
>>
>> > Thinking of PW-5 nose ground clearance, fitting FES would make a
>> > rather expensive lawnmower.
>> >
>> True enough - my excuse is that its years since I've seen one.
>>
>> > But isn't there a UK company that is in the process of fitting not
>> > only jet but ELECTRIC engine driving wheels of glider that has PW-5
>> > wings? And no, I believe IGC did not have this in mind when deciding
>> > on "electrical self launching" capability.
>> >
>> >
>
> http://www.proairsport.com/news.php

Good to see its still progressing. Some dimensions and performance
estimates would be nice.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 16:46:58 UTC, Dan Daly wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 8:11:00 AM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> > On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 03:28:19 -0800, krasw wrote:
> >
> > > Thinking of PW-5 nose ground clearance, fitting FES would make a rather
> > > expensive lawnmower.
> > >
> > True enough - my excuse is that its years since I've seen one.
> >
> > > But isn't there a UK company that is in the process
> > > of fitting not only jet but ELECTRIC engine driving wheels of glider
> > > that has PW-5 wings? And no, I believe IGC did not have this in mind
> > > when deciding on "electrical self launching" capability.
> > >
>
>
> http://www.proairsport.com/news.php

The company was wound up in a solvent liquidation, having failed to raise sufficient funds to complete the project. I believe the main director is attempting to resuscitate the project. It would have been the cheapest self launching glider by far, at the expense of considerably less good glide performance than the Silent or other newer 13.5 m gliders.

Doubt they'd develop new 18m tips. The "neo" winglets are all designed to replace the "flying nun" 15m wingtips on the LS-8, and evidently other 15m LS gliders including the '6? (But not the '10 which already has modified flying nun winglets)
The 18m tips on LS6c really were added to the 15m wings as an afterthought to the formerly successful LS6 racing wing to support a self-launcher version, which never was marketed.

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 6:20:52 AM UTC-5, Bojack J4 wrote:
> The 18m tips on LS6c really were added to the 15m wings as an afterthought
> to the formerly successful LS6 racing wing to support a self-launcher
> version, which never was marketed.

Perhaps you are referring to the LS-9 motor-glider (which I have seen)?
It has a nice tailwheel-in-rudder like later Antares and ArcusM.

See ya, Dave

Upgrading an LS6c from 17.5m to 18m-WL tips is possible (https://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/download/Data/TM-LS/LS6/TM6032/TM6032.pdf). You can check with Stefan Göldner from DG about the economics.